Casey wrote to me about a month ago, uncertain whether a guy she liked was interested in her. I heard from her again recently, and I wanted to share her dilemma because the stakes are high. If she can’t resolve her problem, another nice guy bites the dust. Help me out by giving her some good suggestions!

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Hi Susan,

I am an avid reader and huge fan. I know how much you talk about beta guys being best in the long run. I agree. Recently, I became involved with a guy who is the epitome of a great, good, beta guy. He is handsome, nice, fun, and so so caring.

We met through grad school. We’ve been classmates for a while, but never more than just casual acquaintances.Then in May we started becoming close friends. We clicked really well. Soon quick phone calls about assignments became one hour chats about politics, then three hour talks about life, and then a couple of all nighter phone calls (which I haven’t done since high school!)

Things got even more interesting when we both broke up with out significant others this summer. We started hanging out even more and talking everyday. But we have never talked about “us.” We haven’t even really talked about our break ups. I thought that maybe he just wanted to be my friend but then the other night we kissed…more like made out. He was a total gentleman and walked me into my apartment, then left. I liked that. However, since that night he hasn’t tried anything else!!!

We went out again last night, but this time he didn’t try to kiss me. He seems to be taking this very very slow. If it wasn’t for the fact that he calls me every day and some comments he makes (like telling me I am one of the most interesting girls he’s met and how we complement each other w/our personalities), I would think maybe this guy isn’t into me that way.

Our kiss was perfect and I had so much fun making out..I don’t understand why he hasn’t tried more. Maybe I am too used to horny, eager, alpha males (which is basically all I have ever dated), but I am dying for more sexual attention!!!

He seems old fashioned…traditional…formal and very much the gentleman so I don’t know how to bring this up without sounding like a slut. He has told me straight out that he isn’t into flings. He also told me his relationship was over way before he actually had the courage to break up with his ex. So I am not sure if maybe he sees me as a potential gf in the near future. But regardless, I am getting mixed signals and I am not sure what to do. I’d love to know your thoughts!!

Thank you!

Casey

Hi Casey,

Oh, this is a good one! First, I’ll just say that in my experience guys do not put enormous effort into platonic friendships. They’re just not wired that way. If he is seeking you out, spending time, and wanting to talk on the phone ALL NIGHT (oh my!) I think you can assume he’s interested in more.

You’re wondering why he hasn’t gotten sexually aggressive, but it sounds like he has tried to offer an explanation for that by stating that he is not into flings. That’s admirable, and rare. Good for you for going for the “dad” instead of the “cad.” However, keep in mind that he may be less sexually experienced than some of the guys you’ve been involved with before, and not at all interested in hooking up casually. I wouldn’t pressure him to do more than anything he’s already initiated, but I don’t see any reason why you can’t be the one to kiss him first if you feel like it. That would hardly be slutty!

In short, I don’t think you’re getting mixed signals at all. I think he is signaling that he is physically, intellectually and emotionally attracted to you. And that he likes to take things slowly. In my view, that’s a plus. No “hit it and quit it” from this guy.

I’m on the edge of my seat, please keep me posted! Good luck!

xoxo

Susan

Hi Susan,

I wanted to give you an update and ask for your thoughts again since there have many some slight changes in the past month. For starters, he did indeed move into the more than friends as you indicated he would. We have been hanging out a lot and things have been great. In the hook up department, we’ve done all but actual sex. He told me he likes to go slow when it comes to that. He said he has been trying to change from the way he used to be when he was younger. He said that not only does he have to care about the girl that he is sleeping with but he would also prefer that the relationship be exclusive.

Second, I am beginning to see a problem that I have seen with other beta type guys. I think I overwhelm these beta guys! So here is the situation, we were at dinner over the weekend. Everything was going great. But then I ran into some friends and it started to go downhill. He became very timid. It was very awkward. They sat down with us for about 10 min while they waited for their table and they asked him questions like, “So how is the job search going after grad school?” His answer: “Uh…I don’t know, I’m not really sure.” It was so bizarre. He came off as sheepish and lacking a personality.

The end of the night was the worst part. We went to meet some mutual friends for a drink. There was music playing so naturally, I started dancing. He stayed by the wall and just watched me even though I tried to get him to dance. I came back after two songs and he and another guy were talking about politics, so I chimed in. As soon as I opened my mouth (and I didn’t talk much) he stopped talking. From this point on it was very clear he was acting totally weird. And this isn’t new. It has been happening. He is acting more and more shy instead of opening up.

I had to bring it up…I couldn’t control myself. So I asked him about it. I told him that when he first started going after me he was more aggressive and assertive and lately he has been the complete opposite. He said he also noticed it. He said that he has never been in this situation before. He said that he has dated smart girls, but perhaps they weren’t as attractive, or really pretty girls that lacked personality, or a pretty, smart girl that didn’t have her life together. He paid me a huge compliment and called me “the whole package.” He said he is amazed by my intelligence, looks and personality, but that it also intimidates him and he doesn’t know how to act sometimes.

The problem is Susan, I do not find this sexy at all. It’s all about the social dominance you talked about recently. I like social dominance. But I also don’t like assholes. Just yesterday I met a guy at a friend’s BBQ who was exactly that–socially dominant. I found him extremely attractive. We hit it off instantly. He asked for my number (at 2pm). I heard from him at 11:30 pm. He sent a text that read: “What are you doing? Feel like coming over?” Are you kidding me?! My beta guy would never do that. He is too nice and polite for that. While BBQ guy wants to hook up with me the very night he meets me and doesn’t actually care about getting to know me, the Beta guy wants to get to know me yet gets too intimidated and ruins his own game. What to do??

Casey

Dear Casey,

The most challenging thing about letters like yours is that you’re not really the one who needs advice, right? This guy has just about everything a woman could want – good looks, intelligence, character, lively conversation. When the two of you are alone it’s great, but he wilts in social situations, which sends your attraction for him right over the edge of a cliff. It sounds like you really like him, and are not willing to give up yet, but he needs a rousing pep talk – I wish I could give it to him! Unfortunately, assuming that he isn’t going to figure this out on his own (though he might), you’re the only one who has leverage. No woman wants to offer a tutorial on how not to behave, so I think your best short-term strategy is to strongly reward the behaviors you like, and limit your exposure to behaviors you don’t like. It’s great that you could tell him you’re finding his passivity confusing and disappointing, but no relationship can withstand repeated conversations along those lines.

I agree that he seems very intimidated – he can’t believe his good fortune – fears, in fact, that it’s too good to be true. He’s is fretting over whether he can hang onto you because he perceives you as a great catch who can choose among many men. He isn’t giving himself enough credit for his good qualities, perhaps not trusting that you will value them over typical alpha behavior. In short, he’s constantly looking over his shoulder to see who is about to replace him. He senses that this insecurity is a huge turnoff, but he’s struggling to get over it, or at least hide it from you. If you can provide strong evidence that you like him a lot, I think he’ll chill.

A while back, I featured the advice of reader Dilithium on how to successfully get with a nice guy. He wrote it focusing on undergrads with little experience, but I think much of it applies to your guy as well. The highlights are worth revisiting here (my commentary is in italics):

1. Be physical, but not necessarily sexual, early and often.

Don’t jump his bones in one big go right away; better is to do a lot of small things to show, quietly and continually, that you enjoy his physical contact. You don’t need to grope him or fall all over him; just hold hands, put your arm around his waist, lean against him sometimes when you walk. Continuous, small reminders are what will really be convincing.

You’ve already learned this through experience with him. Sex has significant meaning for him, and it also signals emotional investment on his part. He will want assurance that it’s equally meaningful for you before he makes that commitment.

2. Don’t command a performance that he can’t (yet) deliver.

You’ll be better off if you don’t frame the situation in such a way that he’s giving a high-stakes command performance. Make it absolutely clear that you’re not going to grade and criticize his every move, and that you welcome the spirit of whatever he wants to try. This is probably true, you just have to get it across. And try some stuff yourself! nice guys, unlike alpha jocks, are usually very receptive to women taking the initiative.

The same principle applies in many other situations. If your guy is not a fluent talker, then a dinner date may be a long and painful experience early in a relationship. You may just want him to relax and talk about whatever he wants to; but he may see it as a command performance, that he has to work to impress you — over and over again, every five minutes for two hours.

The bottom line here is, try to avoid setting up situations in which your guy feels he has to perform something he’s not good at; it will be painful for him, and make him look less attractive to you.

Obviously, your guy is a fluent talker when it’s just the two of you. He would probably also do OK with his own close friends. For what it’s worth, although I’m sure your friends meant no harm, quizzing a person about a job search is not exactly a great way to get better acquainted or put someone at ease. I fully understand why he responded awkwardly. Personally, I would not have appreciated that line of inquiry if I was out to dinner, especially from someone who plopped down at my table unexpectedly. I would not judge him for that – talk about being put on the spot!

Clearly, being in a bar with your friends while you danced like the free spirit you are made him feel like he’d been thrown into the deep end. This is not a criticism of your behavior, or your very normal desire to have fun! However, he’s probably not the guy who wants to bust out the dance moves in a bar. Being with him means understanding that he is reserved compared to you.

My husband and I are opposites in this way. When we attend a cocktail party for example, I could be quite happy talking to a bunch of strangers all night, checking in occasionally with him, but very comfortable doing my own thing. My husband prefers that we hang as a couple more, interacting with others here and there, but touching base periodically. I’m an extrovert, he’s an introvert. I’ve found that I can have quite a good time doing it his way – I don’t really need to exert independence in that situation. It sounds like that is the dynamic between you and this guy as well. That contrast can work extremely well, but it’s important that each of you understands and accepts the true nature of the other.

3. Visit him when he’s at his best.

The flip side of the same token is that it’s within your power to make your guy look more attractive to you. The key here is to spend time with him while he’s doing something he’s good at and that he enjoys. You will appreciate seeing him happy, relaxed and masterful, and he will appreciate the chance to show off for you successfully.

The time the two of you have spent alone has clearly accomplished this. I think you’re in the awkward transition to either being a real couple or realizing it’s not going to work.

4. Feel free to be your best, and don’t even think of bimbo-izing.

This is another, subtler advantage of going with a nice guy: around them, it is to your advantage to show how smart and skilled you really are; they’ll enjoy and appreciate it, where alpha jocks would be bothered and threatened. The reason why has to do with different approaches to ego support.

Be as good and amazing a person as possible yourself, and then elevate the other person by singling them out for your favor. This is the kind of support that nice guys like to get. Remember, as a reasonably attractive woman you start the relationship with a nice guy in a position of superior power; you don’t build him up by tearing yourself down. Once he’s convinced that you really go for him, then everything good about you — your skills, your culture, your intelligence — reflects back positively on him.

Obviously, he already appreciates your talents. If you can reinforce your singling him out, even (or especially) when in the presence of other guys, he will feel more secure and enjoy himself more. This would be easier to do if the terms of the relationship were defined in such a way that the two of you could present as a couple.

5. Don’t ever flake out, or do anything that even faintly smacks of a power game.

Whether it’s true or not, he will likely believe that you can get another guy at the snap of your fingers, while he can’t do the same, which gives you the upper hand. Some girls find this not to their taste; and if so, then they are just advised to stay away from these guys. If you’re willing to live with the upper hand, though, then my advice for you to be happy with your nice guy is simple: never, ever show that hand. If you try some sort of power move, to yank his chain even a little, it won’t end well for you. At best, he’ll be resentful of having his insecurity exposed; at worst he’ll respond by turning himself door-mattish.

Here is where he is most vulnerable. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t think you’ve tried to use the upper hand at all – but it’s important you understand that he undoubtedly perceives that you have it. He needs reassurance that you’re not going to use it.

If you like him and would be interested in being exclusive, I would initiate that conversation sooner rather than later. It sounds like you have a lot of potential as a couple, and I’d hate to see you throw it away as you navigate the tricky early stages of the relationship. Be clear in telling him what you want from him – say what you need to say. If he can’t or won’t do it – if he feels that the two of you are too different and that he’ll never get comfortable – he’ll say so.

There is nothing wrong with being attracted to social dominance – that is not something you need to apologize for. My guess is that he will be able to hold his own once he feels secure in your affection. If he can’t, then he’s not ready for “the whole package.” (Keep in mind, BBQ Guy is not ready for the whole package either.)

You need someone who not only appreciates your fabulousness but can enjoy it. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that your Beta guy is ready for that challenge.